Brecht on Magic 3

IAN: Listen, I thought you might be interested in magic. After all, it's a non-naturalistic aspect of performance, which I thought was what you were after.

BRECHT: Well I'm not. I'm not interested in magic tricks, I've never been interested in magic tricks, and as far as I'm concerned I never will be interested in magic tricks. Now will you put me back in this box....

IAN: No, wait a minute. I thought magic tricks might fit in with your theories.

BRECHT: What theories?

IAN: Whatsit. Alienation.

BRECHT: Alienation? You mean verfremdungs. Alienation is a very bad translation of something I called verfremdungs. The verfremdungseffekt.

IAN: All right, the verfremdungseffekt. Magic tricks might fit in very well with that. Whatever it is.

BRECHT: You don't know what it is?

IAN: Well, you could explain it.

BRECHT: All right, I'll explain. Verfremdung means, literally, "making strange". You see, in our everyday lives we take things for granted, so if they are shown on the stage exactly as they appear in life, we still don't look at them properly. This is why I'm opposed to naturalism.

IAN: I see.

BRECHT: So I devised a series of techniques to make us look anew at the things around us.

IAN: So, it's a way of sort of taking a fresh look at things we normally take for granted.

BRECHT: Yes.

IAN: Like trousers, for instance.

BRECHT: What?

IAN: Trousers. Just at random, I thought, trousers. Because people see trousers all around them all the time, and they don't think about the trousers ... what's behind the ... and ... erm ... Not trousers then?

BRECHT: Of course not trousers. What have trousers got to do with it? I'm talking about oppression and exploitation.

IAN: Oh, it's a political thing.

BRECHT: Of course it's a political thing. I'm a political writer, what do you expect?

IAN: So how did you achieve this verfremdunseffekt, this making strange.

BRECHT: Well, I would use a number of techniques. I would set a story in an unfamiliar location, or in a different time. I would encourage the audience to sit back and think about the issues, to weigh up the arguments. They could drink if they wanted to, smoke if they wanted to ...

IAN: Smoke?

BRECHT: Yes.

IAN: Well I don't agree with that.

BRECHT: What are you talking about?

IAN: Smoking might help you think better, but in the long run you don't get so much thinking done because you die sooner.

BRECHT: Look, can you just put me back in this box and let me get ...

IAN: No, look - if you're not interested in magic - is there anything I do that you might be at all interested in?